Below is a (very long) thread from Facebook. It started when an old classmate of mine "liked" a post that I thought misogynistic and then seconds later posted a big ole "Happy Birthday" to his five year old daughter. I honestly wasn't trying to pick a fight with him. I just wanted to know if he was perspicacious enough to see the conflict in his actions. Here's the spoiler: He's not.
Winter Wren: Hey Douchebag! How would you feel if, in twelve years, your daughter's boyfriend "liked" a post on Facebook that objectified her body and likened her vagina to a machine that was "self-lubricating" and could accommodate "any size piston?" (This is regarding your friend's link, of course.) I'm just curious...
Happy Birthday to her b/t/w. She's adorable. ;)
Douchebag: I'm not sure what you mean by this? I dont have any control over what people like. In twelve year my daughter should be in collage, so what she does or others do with parts of her body is really not up to me.
Winter Wren: Of course you have no control over what other people like or what happens to your daughter when she’s an adult. My comment on your wall was a hypothetical situation drafted in response to a misogynistic post that you found “funny‼” It said the following: The best engine in the world is the vagina. It can be started with one finger. It is self lubricating. It takes any size piston...It is only a pity that the management system is so fucking temperamental.
Maybe you forgot that you commented on it.
Anyway, I’m not trying to brow-beat you with some boring, self-righteous homily. I am honestly wondering if you saw the inherent objectification of your daughter’s sex in the above statement and if you feel conflicted at all about supporting it. I mean, don’t get me wrong. I think vaginas are the bomb too. It’s really the last sentence that I find spiteful. What do you think?
Douchebag: well Winter Wren, i do think its funny, due to the fact that women are crazy, mothers, wifess, daughters, YOU! but thats just part of life, the male is a little more care free,women tend to act like bitches from time to time, about when " there oil is being changed" but some men act like bitches also. i mean no harm by any of this, i just thought the saying/photo was funny. And i'm a very blunt person. i dont hold back, and some times step over lines, but thats ok, in my life. cheers and be well!
Other Classmate: Winter Wren, this is not who I remeber from 5th grade. Although this is really, really, really, really, really hilarious. Who knew vaginas were the bomb?
Other Classmate: Douchebag, I don't know if you can pull this one off. She has a pretty good arguement. I think you need more facts less name calling to pull it out.
Douchebag: Matt, first off, its been a long time bud. how are you? second, name calling? i have not yet called any names, but i could, and will if need be!! lol. did you see the photo this all started from? if not i'll patch you a link. it started will a simple "funny" on a friend of mine friend's post.
Other Classmate: I did not see it. I remeber Winter Wren from 5th grade though and I didn't remember this much sass.
Douchebag: Ya I take no offense from it, but it fells like it's from left field. My wife is even like wtf is she talking about. I mean I like an afternoon cocktail like everyone else, so I'll chalk it up to that. But I do love when people speak from there heart, and say what they feel.
Other Classmate: I hear way worse on the jobsite everyday. Are you still in the pyrotechnics business in FL.
Bimbo: Since we are throwing our 2 cents in on other people's business....just thought I would throw in...I love being objectified....just about as much as I love my ability to be a bitch from time to time....what I love even more than that is awesome guys like you Josh who get it...and love us anyway!! Cheers!!!
Winte Wren: No need to get your knickers in a bunch, friend. I was just hoping for some calm, rational discourse, not emotional epithets and aspersions. I'm actually quite pleased you finally responded. At first I thought you were craven, but now I'm thrilled to see you have the balls to engage in some friendly FB polemics. I find most posts dull and superficial. This is FAR more fun and interesting!
So just to clarify: I never explicitly expressed MY opinion about the post in question. I simply asked if you would be bothered if men in your daughter's adult life regarded her as a piece of ass. A simple yes or no response would have sufficed, but you actually took the time to say that ALL women are 'crazy' menstruating 'bitches' (your daughter included), so that's cool. By that I mean, I think you went above and beyond answering my question. Thank you for that.
You know, the funny thing is I wasn't nearly as horrified or shocked as you would probably like to think I was about the post. It's not as though I have really delicate sensibilities that were terribly upset. I don't live in a bubble. In fact, I teach at college where most of the students are dudes and I have heard it all before.
I also feel compelled to say this: of course you are not offended by what was written, because it wasn't written about you. When i read that quote this is what I hear: vaginas are great, blah, blah, blah, (again, i couldn't agree more with this part), too bad they are connected to actual people with free wills/interests/desires that might conflict with MY wills/interests/desires.
Not to be crass but here, let me illustrate what I mean with this example: Cock and balls are great! Cock and balls are great because of this, that, and the other thing. (is this making you blush Matt?) 'Tis a pity they are all attached to a bunch of fucking retards. Don't you think that's kind of...I don't know...mean spirited?
Finally, I have one last thing to say about your wife's reaction to my post, and this might totally blow your mind, but you don't actually have to be a man in order to be sexist. Also, you don't have to be a woman to be a feminist. It's as absurd as saying black people can't be racist.
Winter Wren: Other Classmate, I'm glad you find this conversation as funny as I do. Seriously, this is much better than cable TV. Who knew vaginas were the bomb? Me. I ought to, seeing as how I have one. I thought so even in 5th grade, but you just never bothered to ask.
Winte Wren: Bimbo please throw in. We're glad to have you. There's plenty of room her at the table. After all, Facebook is by definition, "Hey y'all come look at my business!"
Also, I wonder if you know the meaning of sexual objectification. Here's what wikipedia has to say: "Sexual objectification refers to the practice of regarding or treating another person merely as an instrument (object) towards one's sexual pleasure, and a sex object is a person who is regarded simply as an object of sexual gratification or who is sexually attractive. Objectification is an attitude that regards a person as a commodity or as an object for use, with little or no regard for a person's personality or sentience.[1][2] " Mmmmm...fun!
Bimbo: Thank you Winter Wren for the attempted clarification...so kind of you! I too have access to Wikipedia if and when it's needed...in this case it is not. Happy day!
Winter Wren: No problem! I don't like to make assumptions about what people do and don't know. Always good to err on the side of caution. :)
Other Classmate: Winter Wren, you must not remember me or maybe I've changed a little. Discussion of cock and balls or vaginas certainly does not make me blush. How is life otherwise?
Also, I have a minor objection to being called a fucking retard. Because I think retard should only be used to describe the timing on an engine or something in music. It is a hard habit to break but people who are challenged can't help it and we shouldn't hurl this around as an insult. I have also seen some of the people that Annie R. works worth do some pretty amazing things that has changed some of my misconceptions. So with all that said, I would prefer to be called a fucking jackass, donkeys don't really mind. At least that I can know about.
Winter Wren: I could not agree more. In fact I would say you are being extremely magnanimous in only having a minor objection to being called a 'fucking retard' because I would have a MAJOR objection to it. It would be extremely mean and spiteful of me to make such a blanket statement about all men, right? And that's my point. Douchebag felt like I was coming out of left field, but that's only because the post wasn't about him. It was about his mom, his wife, his daughter. I just wanted to remind him what it feels like to deal with the business end of an unfair characterization. And I apologize for using the word retard, but I wanted to come up with something blatantly insulting and outrageous and that's the best I could come up with at that moment.
Winter Wren: And finally to Douchebag, men are more carefree you say. Well, some of them are. And some of them are insecure, bellicose assholes that get into bar fights every night. Are they like that because they are men or because they are just assholes? The same goes for women. Maybe she's cranky and moody because she is just a cranky, moody person. This gets back to my, I suppose you could say, motive for posting in the first place. If you think all women can be summed up in a couple crass lines, then guess what? Your daughter will probably grow up to meet your expectations and become that 'crazy menstruating bitch' you portend. But if you think women are capable of being many different things. Well than who knows? Maybe she will grow up to be a smart, self-confident, and plucky lass.
And you know Douchebag, I haven't spoken to you since seventh grade French class, but I bet you're not the dickhead you made yourself out to be way up there at the top of this thread. I bet you are a pretty nice, well meaning guy. Thanks for indulging me in this conversation.
